Unpopular Opinion Time (please don’t yell at me i never post things like this)
I don’t really find Caleb all that greedy. Now, before you go and type up your response to this saying that I’m just defending him because He’s the Fandom White Boy™, let me finish. While I don’t find him greedy, I DO think that he is very selfish, which may seem like the same thing, and while they do connect often, they’re not intrinsically linked. Before I go on, I would like to say that this is not me defending Caleb. I just want to discuss my thoughts on him, and appreciate how Liam plays him, because WOW
So. The semantics of being greedy over being selfish. At first glance they seem like the same thing, but there are a few key differences. Someone who is greedy is never satisfied with what they have. they always want more, even when they have plenty, and tend to hold money and items of value in very high regard. On the other hand, someone who is selfish is defined by how they look out for themselves before others. They always want to be sure that there is something in it for them- an incentive of some sort, not necessarily monetary- and won’t help unless they are sure it’s worth it.
Now, being selfish does not make you obsessed with money, or items. You just want to be sure that what you’re doing is worth your time. Caleb definitely exhibits these traits. He is always the first to ask about payment, however his approach is businesslike- focusing on the trade being fair, rather than on the money itself. (”if the money’s right and it’s not stupid!”). Once he learned that they were indeed being paid for the job from the Knights of Requital, he decided the amount was enough, and did not push for more.
Another thing against Caleb being greedy is that he doesn’t really care for finery. all of the items that he has bought so far have been for practical reasons. He has no inclination to buy nicer clothes, instead showing a great distaste at the thought. If he were greedy, he would have kept the money he found in the sewers rather than give it to Jester, and he probably would not have told Fjord about the armor, instead selling it for his own gain. Sure his reasons for choosing not to do these things weren’t exactly the most noble, but that’s kind of my point here- he did it to help himself by gaining the favor of Jester and Fjord, a selfish goal. Sure he can be a bit greedy at times, but I do not think that is his defining trait. Caleb is Selfish first and foremost.
Now this is definitely not a good thing. I would in fact argue that being selfish is worse than being greedy in a lot of situations. For instance, last night, when he tried to grab the scroll. Seems greedy at first, but really it was just him deciding that the stress and the complications of the job were not worth what he was being paid, and therefore wanted to grab the scroll to even things out. He did not believe what he was doing to be worth the pay, and therefore acted accordingly. Not going into this right now though, because this post is getting reeeeally long. all I want to say is that this struck me as more of being selfish than being greedy like most people have been saying.
Now because I know someone is going to mention Vex, I will go ahead and say a few things about her as well.
I think that Vex was pretty much the opposite of Caleb. She was greedy, but not selfish. Now, I do not think that her greed was as big of a deal as most people made it out to be. Sure it caused a few problems here and there, but for the most part it was negligible. What is important is that she wasn’t selfish. Even though she cared a lot about money, she never took too much if she knew someone else needed it. She would help people even if the payment wasn’t quite worth it, usually put others before herself, and never hid money from the rest of the group. Really the only thing that made her greedy was that she liked to be able to afford nice things. So really, she wasn’t even all that greedy, as I know for a fact that most people like to be able to do this as well. She was just more enthusiastic about money than others, which actually served Vox Machina well in a lot of situations. (her bargaining skills were bomb!)
So yeah, this is just something that I had on my mind. as a side note, I don’t really think that Caleb was in the right in last night’s episode when he tried to take the scroll (although tbh I really wanted him to. But that’s more me wanting to see a new item than me thinking about whether or not it was right), as it was kind of an asshole move. I just find Caleb an incredibly interesting and complex character (same going for the rest of the crew because Jeez), and wanted to discuss his traits and flaws, because they’re interesting. I can’t wait to see more! Anyway,
Is it Thursday yet?
Really excellent analysis here.
I think it’s also worth mentioning two things about the differences between Vex and Caleb.
Firstly, we the audience knew Vex’s reasons for her bargaining skills and fixation on money: she grew up poor and after fleeing her father, starved in the woods with her brother for years and resorted to theft to live. The broom was stolen to benefit the party, after having lost their flying carpet and also recently coming into conflict with a group of flying dragons. We the audience don’t know why Caleb is so obsessed with gaining more magical artifacts, even at the cost to the party’s cohesion and safety. So right now, people can either write this off as Caleb being a jackass, or make up elaborate theories for why Caleb is doing this, and we just … don’t know for sure yet.
Secondly, hate to bring it up but it is relevant, a portion of the fandom raked Vex over the coals for being a “greedy bitch” and such, and never let her live it down. Vex being a female character, played by a woman at the table, drew a lot of criticism from some fans. That’s criticism I don’t see happening to the same degree towards Caleb, or even Nott (a female character played by Sam, a male player.) Wanting things as a female character, like money, security, respect, or time in the spotlight, is the greatest of sins according to some members of this fandom.
I don’t want anyone getting dragged over coals, but it makes me real mad that Vex and Laura got hate lobbed at them for ages, and now Caleb and Nott are getting free passes from people. I see it, and I don’t like it one bit.
Damn I didn’t expect anyone to actually respond to what I had to say- it’s rather disorienting, honestly 😆
This is really good! And I agree with what you said about Vex being a girl played by a girl. Unfortunately it really does make a difference in the way some of the fandom treats her. Which always got on my nerves, because honestly, I don’t think she ever actually did anything bad enough to deserve the backlash she got.
But yeah, thanks for adding on! I’ve never posted anything like this before, so I’m glad to see that people liked it enough to add their own thoughts.
Yes, as Laura said herself, Vex has never been anything but a team player. I don’t even really remember her “greed” getting the rest of the group into trouble. No, she didn’t die because she was greedy, she died because Percy was too hasty to get armor that was probably meant for him way back when. But somehow people never bring up that all that much? Not even Vax, in-universe, but oh well.
Vex also NEVER spent any of the money she hoarded for the entire team on herself. Their shopping trips never benefitted her overmuch, except for in the way buying potions to keep them all alive benefits anyone. And stealing the broom didn’t even get herself into trouble because she was smart about it, leave alone the rest of the group.
Caleb is not a team player. Caleb is in it for himself only, and maybe Nott, but I don’t quiiiiite trust him not to leave her yet when shit really hits the fan. I’m convinced Nott is devoted to Caleb – and I’m convinced Caleb is primarily devoted to his own survival.
We see that in how he handles the loot, mostly. Being able to identify things makes him a valuable asset, so no one will, at first, question him taking all the things. It’s just that he takes things first, identifies them, and then decides, on his own unless someone’s pinning him to a wall, whether or not sharing either information or things with the team is worth it.
Read: if wizards could wear armor, there’s no way in hell he would have given these things to Fjord, even though the imagery basically included Fjord’s name written on it.
He also explicitly went for the scroll case, rather than anything fancy that could be turned into money, because he assumes it’s a spell scroll that would make him more powerful – the same reason he ever feigned an interest in smut. It worked that one time. So he also very clearly values raw power and magic over money, and the whole shifty heist schtick is more about scamming people to get by when you need money, not to really amass money for himself… Which in a way still makes him greedy, just not for money, and only as a secondary motivation after survival; note how he dropped the case when Fjord threatened to leave him behind.
All of this makes him the least reliable and most shady team mate, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Liam I-Really-Like-To-Fuck-With-Your-Emotions O’Brien has made an actually evil character that might turn on the rest of the party at some point. And turn it into a learning experience of “hey look, this is what a truly greedy and selfish character looks like, and he’s also socially awkward, but funny how no one ever called for my removal from the game, isn’t it?”. Playing the long con, even out of character.
(And when that happens, we all should have seen it coming because of course that’s what the character with the German accent would do. Of fucking course.)
Overdressed & Underappreciated 