About Gods, Hipocrisy and Infallibility

out-there-on-the-maroon:

vohalika:

So almost a
week later, I am very much still not over just how stupid the thing™ was last
episode. I mean, here’s a goddess who

  • Locked
    herself away in hiding
  • Locked
    the access information to her hiding place away in a guy hidden away in the
    forest with no idea on how to access the information inside him
  • Was
    sought out because she was the one hiding the information on how to ascend to
    godhood (which was then stolen from her and exploited to wreak doom upon all
    the world)
  • And
    because she was also hiding the information on how to contain a god once
    ascended
  • Which
    she had literally locked up in an insanely hard to unlock secret place
  • And
    then distributed more knowledge on how to save the world, but with a time limit
    on its accessibility

…and she
rejects Percy because he likes to keep secrets? And therefore gives her
championship to a storyteller, who a) has voiced concern about being the
storyteller instead of part of the story and b) was only ever interested in
telling stories about his exaggerated greatness instead of passing on actual
facts? Maybe in part to make up for feeling like his part in the story as the
storyteller wasn’t big enough?

I’m not
even saying that the blessing isn’t fitting for Scanlan or that the challenge
wasn’t tailor-made for him. It was. Tailor-made by the DM, that is. I’ve previously
voiced the suspicion that this was based on Matt’s view on what a bard is
supposed to be, rather than what Scanlan is actually like
.

(also what I’m saying is that her reason to not choose Percy is just ridiculous and doesn’t add up. Percy’s policy regarding keeping secrets is literally identical to what Ioun does)

And after
rejecting Grog’s attempts to connect with Kord straight-out, that is pretty
likely. Matt has planned out this final arc and everyone’s god connections (or
lack thereof) some time ago, probably from the beginning given his affinity for
the long game. That’s why this arc feels a lot more on the rails than any
previous one. He has a specific endgame in mind, and maybe it’ll involve more
gods, maybe the Allhammer will be the last dude and we’ll all be here next week
yelling about whether Percy or Grog are better fit, maybe Keyleth’s entire role
is supposed to be just everyone’s convenient taxi so no one will yell about
Marisha getting the DM’s GF bonus or whatever.

However,
there might actually be a greater point to Ioun and the hypocrisy here.

Ioun also
presented the first counterpoint to the whole shebang the Raven Queen
introduced regarding fate-touched, destiny and inevitability. There is always a
choice. Which is to say, she hinted at the Raven Queen being downright wrong.
That the gods are not infallible.

Like, I have
previously argued that Pelor is an asshole and just the latest in the
long-standing line of asshole male (father-) figures Vex attaches herself to even
though they are not even remotely worthy of her, and that claiming he had a bunch
of better champions despite none of them lifting a finger when dragons raided
the world was either wrong or a dick move, and this just goes a step further. The
gods make mistakes. They say shit that is plain-out wrong. They can be giant
hypocrites. We don’t have to take ANYTHING they say at face-value.

So like
Percy pointed out at one point, there might be hope for Vax’s soul yet. That
also means Vecna is even less powerful than he thinks he is – what use are his
godhood when it doesn’t even help him verify his secrets (and I’ll have words
for the gross, gross, gross attempt at a parallel there)?

So maybe
the very unconventional theme of this god arc is that the gods ain’t shit. Actually,
that’s the take-away no matter what at this point, because either the gods ain’t
shit and that’s what Matt is going for, or I’m right about the rail-roady thing
and Matt is the god who is actually even less infallible than previously
thought. But as I said before, that… Just sounds so lame. So…

I do think there’s some disconnect going on here between what Matt is seeing and what we the audience are seeing. 

I’ve noticed a lot of confusion and upset fans since last week about Ioun choosing Scanlan over Percy. I’m one of those fans. (Upset at the narrative, not the players or Matt, why must I constantly have to point this out when making a critique of the show, jesus christ can people just chill, you don’t have to love something 100% of the time or think it’s garbage, there is a place for honest criticism that isn’t personal attacks in fandom.) 

There’s a fair few of the audience confused about this choice. It clearly makes perfect sense to Matt and the players. But it’s not translating to some of the audience. I hope this is cleared up in the future. 

I do wonder if he’s building to something about the gods being fallible. They are weak, they are easily misled, they are arrogant, they are vulnerable, we’ve seen this over the past few episodes. Ioun even said that mortals don’t need the gods as much as the gods need them, a very American Gods way of looking at things that I am super intrigued by.

P.S. Pelor is a jerk and I’m still mad Vex had to “prove herself” to him after slaying dragons while his champions did heck all to save the world.

Yeeeaaah, Matt basically just went on Talks and confirmed what I suspected. Scanlan spent his life seeking and spreading knowledge? And inspires people by telling them about all the knowledge he acquired? That’s… Footage not found, literally. Any and all tales he tells are exaggerated recounts of his own greatness. He has to actively try to be truthful about ANYTHING, so if he ever does spread knowledge, he actually spreads lies and falsehoods, for no good reason, even.  And if the guns are to be taken out of the equation, then Scanlan is JUST AS secretive about his background as Percy was, just that he then yells at people for not knowing things he never told them about. Ugh.

smoggyfogbottom said:                                            
                                               
                               It could be something simpler than that
though since this isn’t just a narrative, but also a D&D game – I
know that when I DM if a player has their character act out a certain
way I try to have things in the world react in a way that validates
their role playing. example, scanlan is depressed/feeling useless, matt
makes him one of the most important figures in finally banishing vecna. I
suppose this is meta reasoning for what happened, but that’s my initial
thought.                             

…Because Scanlan was so useless in the last fight against Vecna, is always completely irrelevant to any and all combat encounters, and his depression was totes tied to how people didn’t appreciate his songs and battle skills before. Never has he ever influenced the outcome of a battle, and it was barely even noticed when his skill pool wasn’t available.

If you want to see validating the players, look at the “never forget how important you are to them” line, which could have come from any and all gods ever. Scanlan explicitly complained about only being valued for his skills and combat abilities before, what he needs is social validation. Which he could have gotten from any god.

Also Matt is absolutely not the kind of DM to sacrifice the narrative to validate his players… In ways they don’t even need validation in.

calevmir

calevmir

replied to your post “calevmir  replied to your  post :
                   peristurmkrahe…”

                       An entire corps of rifleman is not using three
musktets. Percy had to have built more. And it’s mechanically true that
Percy’s guns are superior. Bad News deals 2d12 damage and the closest
Ripley could get was 2d10.                   

Building a gun takes half a year. Percy gave us a laundry list of what he did over the break, guns were not included. He hasn’t built a single gun since Bad News, just maybe imporved a little upon Ripley’s guns. And there were so many of those that Scanlan taking one wasn’t immediately obvious.

And if anything, the fact that there is a tiny corps of riflemen now furthermore countrs towards the fact that the guns aren’t even a secret anymore. What point are you trying to make here? Is it wrong that the guns exist? Yes, Percy thinks so, too. Hence why he wanted to keep it to himself and only started arming his own people after Ripley had already gone and sold the schematics to the world and only for defense in case of dragon-induced apokalypse. Is it wrong that he tried to keep the gun thing a secret or contained? Well, Ioun is certainly not one to make dangerous knowledge freely accessible to the world, so judging Percy for doing the same is hypocritical.

calevmir

replied to your

post

:


                   peristurmkrahe
replied to your post “About Gods,…                

   The secret is guns. It’s that he insist no one else can have them
and then he arms his citoes guard with them he’s giving Whitestone a
drastic military advantage for the next 50 to 100 years.   

calevmir replied to your post:
                   peristurmkrahe
replied to your post “About Gods,…                

   And that is a much more powerful secret than Scanlans. Scanlan’s
secrets affect him and those around him. Percy’s secrets affect the
entire Prime Material Plane.   

Whitestone, Ank’Harel, and whereever else the information of the guns has been leaked to. It’s not a secret anymore, Ripley made sure of that. And Ioun acrted like keeping the guns a secret was the problem, instead of sharing them with the world. The guns the Whitestone military has are the ones Ripley made. She sold several of them, too, they’re around. They don’t qualify as a secret anymore, despite all of his intentions to keep them contained – that were apparently bad, according to Ioun.

peristurmkrahe

replied to your post “About Gods, Hipocrisy and Infallibility”

                       Mabe Percy’s problem is the the contract?  

But that’s not a secret. And the explicit reason for rejecting him was that he likes to keep secrets.                

You’re criticisms of critical role have gone from somewhat insightful to just complaining about choices you disagree with. I don’t always think Matt or the players make the best call but I also acknowledge that they are in the situation while we view it. Honestly I followed this blog because I thought you had some interesting thoughts but I’m here to enjoy a good show, not pick it apart from the seams.

Hey, I am also here to enjoy a good show. That show just has disappointed me recently with things I don’t believe make sense, and because I WANT it to be good and make sense I think about how it might. And I really, really want to believe there is a plan that goes beyond “uuuh, bard, storyteller, knowledge, secrets bad, but only when it’s Percy having them!”

And also, this was not a mishap under pressure. Not a rule fumble. This was a long-standing plan and did not come down to a call on a time limit.

Part of my enjoyment of things comes from analyzing them. If my particular way of doing that is not for you, well, I don’t know what to tell you, anon, I hope you find better blogs to follow?

About Gods, Hipocrisy and Infallibility

So almost a
week later, I am very much still not over just how stupid the thing™ was last
episode. I mean, here’s a goddess who

  • Locked
    herself away in hiding
  • Locked
    the access information to her hiding place away in a guy hidden away in the
    forest with no idea on how to access the information inside him
  • Was
    sought out because she was the one hiding the information on how to ascend to
    godhood (which was then stolen from her and exploited to wreak doom upon all
    the world)
  • And
    because she was also hiding the information on how to contain a god once
    ascended
  • Which
    she had literally locked up in an insanely hard to unlock secret place
  • And
    then distributed more knowledge on how to save the world, but with a time limit
    on its accessibility

…and she
rejects Percy because he likes to keep secrets? And therefore gives her
championship to a storyteller, who a) has voiced concern about being the
storyteller instead of part of the story and b) was only ever interested in
telling stories about his exaggerated greatness instead of passing on actual
facts? Maybe in part to make up for feeling like his part in the story as the
storyteller wasn’t big enough?

I’m not
even saying that the blessing isn’t fitting for Scanlan or that the challenge
wasn’t tailor-made for him. It was. Tailor-made by the DM, that is. I’ve previously
voiced the suspicion that this was based on Matt’s view on what a bard is
supposed to be, rather than what Scanlan is actually like
.

(also what I’m saying is that her reason to not choose Percy is just ridiculous and doesn’t add up. Percy’s policy regarding keeping secrets is literally identical to what Ioun does)

And after
rejecting Grog’s attempts to connect with Kord straight-out, that is pretty
likely. Matt has planned out this final arc and everyone’s god connections (or
lack thereof) some time ago, probably from the beginning given his affinity for
the long game. That’s why this arc feels a lot more on the rails than any
previous one. He has a specific endgame in mind, and maybe it’ll involve more
gods, maybe the Allhammer will be the last dude and we’ll all be here next week
yelling about whether Percy or Grog are better fit, maybe Keyleth’s entire role
is supposed to be just everyone’s convenient taxi so no one will yell about
Marisha getting the DM’s GF bonus or whatever.

However,
there might actually be a greater point to Ioun and the hypocrisy here.

Ioun also
presented the first counterpoint to the whole shebang the Raven Queen
introduced regarding fate-touched, destiny and inevitability. There is always a
choice. Which is to say, she hinted at the Raven Queen being downright wrong.
That the gods are not infallible.

Like, I have
previously argued that Pelor is an asshole and just the latest in the
long-standing line of asshole male (father-) figures Vex attaches herself to even
though they are not even remotely worthy of her, and that claiming he had a bunch
of better champions despite none of them lifting a finger when dragons raided
the world was either wrong or a dick move, and this just goes a step further. The
gods make mistakes. They say shit that is plain-out wrong. They can be giant
hypocrites. We don’t have to take ANYTHING they say at face-value.

So like
Percy pointed out at one point, there might be hope for Vax’s soul yet. That
also means Vecna is even less powerful than he thinks he is – what use are his
godhood when it doesn’t even help him verify his secrets (and I’ll have words
for the gross, gross, gross attempt at a parallel there)?

So maybe
the very unconventional theme of this god arc is that the gods ain’t shit. Actually,
that’s the take-away no matter what at this point, because either the gods ain’t
shit and that’s what Matt is going for, or I’m right about the rail-roady thing
and Matt is the god who is actually even less infallible than previously
thought. But as I said before, that… Just sounds so lame. So…

Vox Machina: Oh yeah, that gem in the skull could totes be a necromancer’s phylactery!
Also Vox Machina, less than 5 minutes later: But hOW can DELILAH BRIARWOOD be AlIVe?!!?!?!?!?

it’s almost as if actively shunning the gods and being incredibly proprietary about any and all knowledge/ideas/theories doesn’t gel well with being named the champion of a knowledge domain goddess weird

Yes, yes, it absolutely makes sense for a goddess who has hidden the info to her own location inside a person with no knowledge on how to access it, kept secret several rites and rituals, locked away stuff in her own library, and gave an expiration date to the knowledge of how to save the world to choose a pathological liar who has to actively try to be truthful about anything over the guy who tries to contain the knowledge on how to create the deadliest non-magical weapons the world has ever seen and is occasionally a bit tight-lipped about his personal business, but is the first one to volunteer to go research things and places they might encounter and become everyone’s tour guide. All of this totally adds up. 

So really, what’s the end game here? Half the characters get super cool blessings, Percy and Grog get to work on a project together, and Keyleth is everyone’s lyft?

That’s, ah. Anticlimatic in many ways.