So someone just told me to shut up and behave like the people who yelled at Matt over twitter about something so much, he had to address it twice. So yeah, that’s totally what I’m going to do, but only after making two last points:

On one hand, we have Matt telling us Scanlan spent his life travelling around, picking up knowledge and passing that on to others. On the other hand, we have Sam completely bamboozeled every time Scanlan is supposed to know anything about anything and telling us Scanlan spent his life touring with a band, performing music, trashing his patrons’ bedsheets, seducing people and making little Kaylies. We also have Scanlan lamenting the fact that he felt more like the storyteller instead of like part of the story. In comes Ioun telling him that he absolutely is the storyteller and that he should be the best storyteller he can be. How is that a satisfying conclusion to anything? I get that her words about how much he means to everyone were reaffirming and needed and honestly what the others should have been telling him ever since he got back, and how maybe that coming from a goddess of knowledge is especially reaffirming somehow.´- right while she kiiiind of invalidates the arc Scanlan at least tried to have outside of having a daughter.
The whole champion issue aside, the fact still stands that the de Rolos died because they had an Ioun temple in their basement. At the place where Ioun was wounded. It would have been nice to at least get that addressed or acknowledged in some way. Instead, we get Ioun drawing a direct parallel between Percy and the guy who got his entire family killed. Oh, after she gave a moving speech about redemption, of course. I mean, if nothing else, rude. And Percy seeming unfazed by this doesn’t make it any less rude – it’s just what he expects to hear at this point anyway.

I still disagree with Matt on the choice of Scanlan as Ioun’s champion and that’s still fine – it’s not going to ruin my enjoyment of the arc and I’m interested to see where Percy and Keyleth are going with their “Meh, gods. Who needs em?” subplot.

But you know what I’m really grateful to Matt for that he explained last night on Talks Machina?

Ioun’s decision not to go with Percy had nothing to do with the guns. She understood keeping that a secret. She sympathized with that. According to Matt, that was a secret she was fine with (which, thankfully, removes any need to write that “hypocrite” essay because it turns out she’s not).

Basically what I’m saying is that everyone who sent me messages saying “You’re a moron, Ioun would never like Percy because he hoards the knowledge of guns for himself instead of spreading further knowledge of this deadly weapon,” can eat a godly dick.

Yeah, that makes it easier to stomach – and even sillier, because once the guns are out of the equation, Percy is no more or less secretive with his personal affairs than Scanlan was, and claiming that Scanlan spent his life spreading anything except exaggerated accounts of his own greatness kind of prove that this was more about what Matt thought a bard is SUPPOSED to be rather than what Scanlan actually is.

(Also I kind of wrote that hypocrite essay before this episode, so, uh, wheee?)

And people did send me messages, too… Wow, didn’t expect this to be the subject that touches so many nerves.

About Gods, Hipocrisy and Infallibility

out-there-on-the-maroon:

vohalika:

So almost a
week later, I am very much still not over just how stupid the thing™ was last
episode. I mean, here’s a goddess who

Locked
herself away in hiding

Locked
the access information to her hiding place away in a guy hidden away in the
forest with no idea on how to access the information inside him

Was
sought out because she was the one hiding the information on how to ascend to
godhood (which was then stolen from her and exploited to wreak doom upon all
the world)

And
because she was also hiding the information on how to contain a god once
ascended

Which
she had literally locked up in an insanely hard to unlock secret place

And
then distributed more knowledge on how to save the world, but with a time limit
on its accessibility

…and she
rejects Percy because he likes to keep secrets? And therefore gives her
championship to a storyteller, who a) has voiced concern about being the
storyteller instead of part of the story and b) was only ever interested in
telling stories about his exaggerated greatness instead of passing on actual
facts? Maybe in part to make up for feeling like his part in the story as the
storyteller wasn’t big enough?

I’m not
even saying that the blessing isn’t fitting for Scanlan or that the challenge
wasn’t tailor-made for him. It was. Tailor-made by the DM, that is. I’ve previously
voiced the suspicion that this was based on Matt’s view on what a bard is
supposed to be, rather than what Scanlan is actually like.

(also what I’m saying is that her reason to not choose Percy is just ridiculous and doesn’t add up. Percy’s policy regarding keeping secrets is literally identical to what Ioun does)

And after
rejecting Grog’s attempts to connect with Kord straight-out, that is pretty
likely. Matt has planned out this final arc and everyone’s god connections (or
lack thereof) some time ago, probably from the beginning given his affinity for
the long game. That’s why this arc feels a lot more on the rails than any
previous one. He has a specific endgame in mind, and maybe it’ll involve more
gods, maybe the Allhammer will be the last dude and we’ll all be here next week
yelling about whether Percy or Grog are better fit, maybe Keyleth’s entire role
is supposed to be just everyone’s convenient taxi so no one will yell about
Marisha getting the DM’s GF bonus or whatever.

However,
there might actually be a greater point to Ioun and the hypocrisy here.

Ioun also
presented the first counterpoint to the whole shebang the Raven Queen
introduced regarding fate-touched, destiny and inevitability. There is always a
choice. Which is to say, she hinted at the Raven Queen being downright wrong.
That the gods are not infallible.

Like, I have
previously argued that Pelor is an asshole and just the latest in the
long-standing line of asshole male (father-) figures Vex attaches herself to even
though they are not even remotely worthy of her, and that claiming he had a bunch
of better champions despite none of them lifting a finger when dragons raided
the world was either wrong or a dick move, and this just goes a step further. The
gods make mistakes. They say shit that is plain-out wrong. They can be giant
hypocrites. We don’t have to take ANYTHING they say at face-value.

So like
Percy pointed out at one point, there might be hope for Vax’s soul yet. That
also means Vecna is even less powerful than he thinks he is – what use are his
godhood when it doesn’t even help him verify his secrets (and I’ll have words
for the gross, gross, gross attempt at a parallel there)?

So maybe
the very unconventional theme of this god arc is that the gods ain’t shit. Actually,
that’s the take-away no matter what at this point, because either the gods ain’t
shit and that’s what Matt is going for, or I’m right about the rail-roady thing
and Matt is the god who is actually even less infallible than previously
thought. But as I said before, that… Just sounds so lame. So…

I do think there’s some disconnect going on here between what Matt is seeing and what we the audience are seeing.

I’ve noticed a lot of confusion and upset fans since last week about Ioun choosing Scanlan over Percy. I’m one of those fans. (Upset at the narrative, not the players or Matt, why must I constantly have to point this out when making a critique of the show, jesus christ can people just chill, you don’t have to love something 100% of the time or think it’s garbage, there is a place for honest criticism that isn’t personal attacks in fandom.)

There’s a fair few of the audience confused about this choice. It clearly makes perfect sense to Matt and the players. But it’s not translating to some of the audience. I hope this is cleared up in the future.

I do wonder if he’s building to something about the gods being fallible. They are weak, they are easily misled, they are arrogant, they are vulnerable, we’ve seen this over the past few episodes. Ioun even said that mortals don’t need the gods as much as the gods need them, a very American Gods way of looking at things that I am super intrigued by.

P.S. Pelor is a jerk and I’m still mad Vex had to “prove herself” to him after slaying dragons while his champions did heck all to save the world.

Yeeeaaah, Matt basically just went on Talks and confirmed what I suspected. Scanlan spent his life seeking and spreading knowledge? And inspires people by telling them about all the knowledge he acquired? That’s… Footage not found, literally. Any and all tales he tells are exaggerated recounts of his own greatness. He has to actively try to be truthful about ANYTHING, so if he ever does spread knowledge, he actually spreads lies and falsehoods, for no good reason, even. And if the guns are to be taken out of the equation, then Scanlan is JUST AS secretive about his background as Percy was, just that he then yells at people for not knowing things he never told them about. Ugh.

smoggyfogbottom said:

It could be something simpler than that
though since this isn’t just a narrative, but also a D&D game – I
know that when I DM if a player has their character act out a certain
way I try to have things in the world react in a way that validates
their role playing. example, scanlan is depressed/feeling useless, matt
makes him one of the most important figures in finally banishing vecna. I
suppose this is meta reasoning for what happened, but that’s my initial
thought.

…Because Scanlan was so useless in the last fight against Vecna, is always completely irrelevant to any and all combat encounters, and his depression was totes tied to how people didn’t appreciate his songs and battle skills before. Never has he ever influenced the outcome of a battle, and it was barely even noticed when his skill pool wasn’t available.

If you want to see validating the players, look at the “never forget how important you are to them” line, which could have come from any and all gods ever. Scanlan explicitly complained about only being valued for his skills and combat abilities before, what he needs is social validation. Which he could have gotten from any god.

Also Matt is absolutely not the kind of DM to sacrifice the narrative to validate his players… In ways they don’t even need validation in.

About Gods, Hipocrisy and Infallibility

So almost a
week later, I am very much still not over just how stupid the thing™ was last
episode. I mean, here’s a goddess who

Locked
herself away in hiding
Locked
the access information to her hiding place away in a guy hidden away in the
forest with no idea on how to access the information inside him
Was
sought out because she was the one hiding the information on how to ascend to
godhood (which was then stolen from her and exploited to wreak doom upon all
the world)
And
because she was also hiding the information on how to contain a god once
ascended
Which
she had literally locked up in an insanely hard to unlock secret place
And
then distributed more knowledge on how to save the world, but with a time limit
on its accessibility

…and she
rejects Percy because he likes to keep secrets? And therefore gives her
championship to a storyteller, who a) has voiced concern about being the
storyteller instead of part of the story and b) was only ever interested in
telling stories about his exaggerated greatness instead of passing on actual
facts? Maybe in part to make up for feeling like his part in the story as the
storyteller wasn’t big enough?

I’m not
even saying that the blessing isn’t fitting for Scanlan or that the challenge
wasn’t tailor-made for him. It was. Tailor-made by the DM, that is. I’ve previously
voiced the suspicion that this was based on Matt’s view on what a bard is
supposed to be, rather than what Scanlan is actually like.

(also what I’m saying is that her reason to not choose Percy is just ridiculous and doesn’t add up. Percy’s policy regarding keeping secrets is literally identical to what Ioun does)

And after
rejecting Grog’s attempts to connect with Kord straight-out, that is pretty
likely. Matt has planned out this final arc and everyone’s god connections (or
lack thereof) some time ago, probably from the beginning given his affinity for
the long game. That’s why this arc feels a lot more on the rails than any
previous one. He has a specific endgame in mind, and maybe it’ll involve more
gods, maybe the Allhammer will be the last dude and we’ll all be here next week
yelling about whether Percy or Grog are better fit, maybe Keyleth’s entire role
is supposed to be just everyone’s convenient taxi so no one will yell about
Marisha getting the DM’s GF bonus or whatever.

However,
there might actually be a greater point to Ioun and the hypocrisy here.

Ioun also
presented the first counterpoint to the whole shebang the Raven Queen
introduced regarding fate-touched, destiny and inevitability. There is always a
choice. Which is to say, she hinted at the Raven Queen being downright wrong.
That the gods are not infallible.

Like, I have
previously argued that Pelor is an asshole and just the latest in the
long-standing line of asshole male (father-) figures Vex attaches herself to even
though they are not even remotely worthy of her, and that claiming he had a bunch
of better champions despite none of them lifting a finger when dragons raided
the world was either wrong or a dick move, and this just goes a step further. The
gods make mistakes. They say shit that is plain-out wrong. They can be giant
hypocrites. We don’t have to take ANYTHING they say at face-value.

So like
Percy pointed out at one point, there might be hope for Vax’s soul yet. That
also means Vecna is even less powerful than he thinks he is – what use are his
godhood when it doesn’t even help him verify his secrets (and I’ll have words
for the gross, gross, gross attempt at a parallel there)?

So maybe
the very unconventional theme of this god arc is that the gods ain’t shit. Actually,
that’s the take-away no matter what at this point, because either the gods ain’t
shit and that’s what Matt is going for, or I’m right about the rail-roady thing
and Matt is the god who is actually even less infallible than previously
thought. But as I said before, that… Just sounds so lame. So…

it’s almost as if actively shunning the gods and being incredibly proprietary about any and all knowledge/ideas/theories doesn’t gel well with being named the champion of a knowledge domain goddess weird

Yes, yes, it absolutely makes sense for a goddess who has hidden the info to her own location inside a person with no knowledge on how to access it, kept secret several rites and rituals, locked away stuff in her own library, and gave an expiration date to the knowledge of how to save the world to choose a pathological liar who has to actively try to be truthful about anything over the guy who tries to contain the knowledge on how to create the deadliest non-magical weapons the world has ever seen and is occasionally a bit tight-lipped about his personal business, but is the first one to volunteer to go research things and places they might encounter and become everyone’s tour guide. All of this totally adds up.

“Ioun is
quite a goddess though, and she doesn’t respect secrets.”

Aka yes, I
am going to be that person.

Ioun does
not like secrets. Which is why the entire quest to gain her favor involved getting
a book that was locked away. Which is why you sought her out to find out about
a ritual that had been kept secret. Which is why she locked herself away in
secrecy.

Which is
why she chose someone who quite frequently lies, deceives, and uses his
knowledge to run a criminal organization, who fucks around with memories for
personal gain or amusement as her champion. Yes. All of this adds up.

And yes, maybe I’ve spent too much time talking about this to see it clearly at this point, but like… Man. I feel like this was more due to Matt’s perception of how certain classes are supposed to be played rather than how the characters actually are played.

Yeah, sure, Bards are supposed to carry and impart knowledge and pass it on and tell your story. But as someone else aptly pointed out, Keyleth lives on to tell the story, Tary writes the Ember Island Players version, and Scanlan writes the porn parody.

The character of Scanlan as played so far is not a lore bard, he’s a troll bard. Nothing wrong with that! But also, wasn’t it part of his crisis that he always felt like the teller of stories, but never like part of it? Or is confirming the characters’ worst fears about themselves just what gods do at this point? I mean, Vex felt unworthy there for a second, and Percy has just been gobsmacked in the face by two goddesses now.

And I knoooow he seems fine. He says he’s fine. Vex says she’s fine with what Scanlan said to her before he left, too. This kind of reads the same?

And especially after Ioun just brought up redemption seconds before choosing her champion, this just… Yeah, sorry Percy, you’re unworthy of this, too, you secret keeping mad man, you. Of course Percy would take that in stride; it’s what he’s always believed about himself to begin with.

This sucks even more considering that they apparently really have to get going now. The trip to Kord was just turned down flat. No one even brought up Melora, or a suitable god for Percy. Maybe Moradin might be something to look into, but, you know, that’d be kind of weird. Taking the god of dwarves for anyone non-dwarven. I can see that work out for Grog, though, given his dwarven beard and hammer, because random loot is now totes relevant when tying people to gods.

Ugh. And I know this will be a none-issue. I knooow. Still.

And I hold that it doesn’t really fit Scanlan, either. If anything, Ioun represents what a bard is supposed to be, even though there should be a separate god for music and performance. If you wanted to make it about his character and his journey, give him a god of family or something. It’s like back when the quest for Scanlan’s vestige involved solving a riddle. Which was ultimately solved by Percy.

Also, secrets as the disqualifying thing? Just. No. I did the math. When you go by secrets, Percy and Scanlan lie and keep to themselves roughly the same amount of things. Just that most of the time, Percy has a good reason, whereas Scanlan just wants to fuck with people. Gah. I’ll probably write all of this out properly at some point, I’m just really kind of upset by this.

(Sprigg saying goodbye to Percy with the “I’m going to think of you when I read these books.” kind of moved me to tears, though. And Percy and Keyleth talking about fuck the gods and fuck destiny was perfect.)

returnofismasm:

agnesgoesadventuring:

vohalika:

So according to Darin, the only reason Sprigg figured he had a connection to Scanlan was because of the both being gnomes part, and halfway through he realized that the real connection was kind of happening with Keyleth. He didn’t mention Ioun once during that explanation.

Seems like we again overestimated the amount of planning Matt includes the other players in. That probably also means that the nicknames were Darin’s own opinions on the characters from the way he watched the show and don’t necessarily reflect how Matt thinks about them. Oh well. More than another week to stew on this.

@returnofismasm

You’re braver than I am to talk about this, I know some people are upset

Why are people upset?

A lot of people were hoping there was more to Scanlan and Sprigg than “we’re both gnomes” so they were bummed that’s all it was.

Eh, more like people took Sprigg talking to Scanlan as a sign that Scanlan was meant to be Ioun’s champion, and assume that if that is out the window, Scanlan won’t get a godly patron, for some reason.

returnofismasm

You’re braver than I am to talk about this, I know some people are upset

I figured they would be, but apparently not in the main tag? In any case, I have written like two and a half essays on the subject, but I’ll say that the only convincing arguments for Scanlan to Ioun’s champion were the random magical item Tibs talked him into taking and Sprigg’s existence. Even the Ioun puzzle for his vestige was nooot exactly solved by him. So unless it’s an “Earthis called dibs” situation (which after the campaign guide, she actualy might have on Scanlan at this point), Percy not getting the championship in favor of Scanlan at this point will be… Well. Unseeded and kind of forced, imho.

So according to Darin, the only reason Sprigg figured he had a connection to Scanlan was because of the both being gnomes part, and halfway through he realized that the real connection was kind of happening with Keyleth. He didn’t mention Ioun once during that explanation.

Seems like we again overestimated the amount of planning Matt includes the other players in. That probably also means that the nicknames were Darin’s own opinions on the characters from the way he watched the show and don’t necessarily reflect how Matt thinks about them. Oh well. More than another week to stew on this.